Dire Vengeance – An Interview with Co-Developer Adam Seger
On the 17th November, I had the joy of interviewing Adam Seger, co-developer of Dire Vengeance. Adam is part of Magic Shot Games, an indie-developer who have recently released their first game on the Nintendo Switch, after a successful release on Steam.
Dire Vengeance is a 2D action-platformer, with inspiration from Castlevania and gorgeous hand-painted artwork. It’s tough as nails, with a heavy metal soundtrack to boot.
A quick bit of housekeeping. First, while the majority of the interview is verbatim, I have removed the ‘ums’, noises of agreement and laughter except when they’re necessary for clarity. Second, you may have seen some sponsored adverts of Dire Vengeance on the website – be assured that these were organised after the interview was conducted and have not influenced the interview in any way. Third, it’s important that you know that Adam sounds like James Earl Jones, circa the original The Lion King film.
KickstARTer – The Fundraising and Artwork of Dire Vengeance
Harry Penwell
So if I just do an intro, so this is an interview with Adam. Is it Sega?
Adam Seger
Seger.
Harry Penwell
Seger. Apologies. About his game Dire Vengeance for NintendoLink. So, yeah, I’ve just got a few questions really. So first of all, I saw that the, your game development started on Kickstarter. And I was just wondering what that experience was like?
Adam Seger
It was, it was interesting, because we started, we had started the game, maybe a year or two before we actually put it up on Kickstarter.
Harry Penwell
Oh, okay.
Adam Seger
But I was working at the time, I’m still working and doing Dire Vengeance on the side. But my co-developer, he was working on it full time. So he didn’t have a side job. And so obviously, while he was working on it, and developing it, you know, he, we weren’t getting paid to develop it. And so we wanted to make sure that he could live and pay his bills and all that kind of stuff. And so we thought that a Kickstarter would be a good way to do that.
And so it was kind of interesting. I felt like we had a good response to it, people were interested in it. And I think were interested by what we showed, but we put a we put a demo out at the, at the time. And we had footage of it, because we finished the first few levels, maybe the first two or three levels. And so people could see what it was about and all that kind of stuff.
And we thought that that was, that was a good thing. But there are some people who said, you know, why do these guys need money? You know, the game is already done. And the reality is, the game changed a lot from from when it was up on Kickstarter to…
Harry Penwell
Most definitely, I mean, you can definitely have a demo ready and not have the game nearly finished.
Adam Seger
Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, in some ways, maybe that speaks to, you know, the the artwork that my partner did, and all that kind of stuff that, that it looked polished and looked like it was in a good state, but and so I kind of took it as a compliment. But at the same time, it’s like, no, no, we really need your support.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, it’s quite a frustrating compliment, really.
Adam Seger
Yes.
Harry Penwell
But still a compliment I think. Well, yeah, now you mentioned the artwork. I saw that it’s all hand painted. And I played the game as well. And it’s really good fun. But also it is gorgeous. Like, especially the backgrounds. And I was just wondering, I know it was your partner who did the graphics, but why hand painted? Why not like the more traditional sort of pixel art or something like that.
Adam Seger
I mean, Karl and I both grew up, Karl’s my partner in developing the game. We grew up in the 80s. We played NES games we, I’ve got, I’ve got a Atari sitting right behind me right now.
Harry Penwell
Oh, very nice.
Adam Seger
Oh yeah, we love more pixelated games. But at the same time, there’s not really a reason that we need to, that we need to make it pixelated. Karl is an amazing artist. You know, ever since ever since I’ve known him and I’ve known him since the second grade. So since I was eight, he’s always been an amazing artist. And so it made sense to us to basically show that off and show off his artistic abilities, especially nowadays, you can do that.
I mean, the only reason that they were pixelated back then was because they had to be. Right? They, they, on the NES, on the Super Nintendo they they didn’t have the capacity for to not be pixelated. And so being that we could make the kind of game that we wanted to play which is kind of old style. You know old school.
Harry Penwell
Nothing wrong with that.
Adam Seger
But exactly, but but kind of use some of today’s resources to to update it and and do kind of a more modern take on on the games that we loved as as kids made a lot of sense to us.
My Friends Are My Power! – The Members of Magic Shot Games
Harry Penwell
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, fair enough. And, and also, I must admit, I am impressed that you’ve been childhood friends, since you were about eight. I don’t think I know anyone from when I was still eight. And I was just wondering, is there something that the other does that kind of kept you going through the project or inspired you through, throughout the project?
Adam Seger
I think that, I think that to some extent, we inspired each other. So we, throughout the project, and we still do this, even even though the game is released, we call each other up on a regular basis, and we say,
“Hey, I just had this idea, or I just saw this thing. And I think that it would be great to put that in the game, you know, what if? What if we had, you know, I just rewatched Nightmare on Elm Street, and there was the blood that came out of the bed, right? Johnny Depp gets sucked into the bed, all the blood comes gushing out and goes up into the ceiling, and then it all rains down? What if we put that into the game?”
Okay. And so it was we, we would throw those ideas out at each other. And a lot of times, they were terrible ideas.
Harry Penwell
But it’s all about throwing it out there, isn’t it?
Adam Seger
Yeah, but we did it so often that a bunch of them stuck also, you know, made their way into the game. But you know, just having that passion and kind of feeding off of each other really helps to keep you motivated and keep the game going. I think that if I had to do it on my own, it would be, you know, not even a halfway done game. It would be you know, maybe 10% done.
Harry Penwell
Okay, yeah. I mean, that’s great to hear that you both worked so well together, and that you always have all these ideas and such like, but just a bit more controversially then, what’s something that you did that would have annoyed? Was it, sorry, was it Ken?
Adam Seger:
Karl, karl.
Harry Penwell
Oh, sorry. What’s something that you did throughout the project that annoyed him? And what’s something that he did that annoyed you?
Adam Seger
Um, let’s see.
Harry Penwell
Only, only small things, nothing that would derail a potential sequel?
Adam Seger
No, no, no. Karl and I are very honest with each other. Let me let me think about I know, I know, there’s stuff that I’ve done that annoyed him. Let me see here. Let me think about what Karl would have done to annoy me. I should probably ask my wife because I probably complained about it most to her. I think, well, I’ll start with what I did that would, I’ll start with what he did that would annoy me. Yeah. And then then I’ll tell you what I did to annoy him.
But Karl, Karl always wanted to, I know what I did. And I know, Karl would always want to see things working. So he would, our process was usually that he would start with the art and kind of build a character or build whatever it was that he was going to build. But he always wanted to see it working. So you know, he always felt like he couldn’t tell if his art or if his animations were working right until he actually had me put in the code and see it working.
And so it takes time to put, put the code together. And sometimes Karl didn’t want to wait for that. And so he would, he would kind of put his own versions of things together and say,
“Okay, I got this thing working Adam”.
And, you know, I’d go and look at it, and I’d be like,
“What have you done?”
Like, you know, yes, it works. But now I need to go in and like fix all these things. And, and, you know, one of the one of the earliest examples of that is we’ve got a script called ‘destroyed by time’. And so in it, you can put it on any object in the game and set a timer and at the end of that timer, the object will blow up, and, and it can either just disappear or it can spawn something else. And so Karl made one of the earliest enemies in the game. You probably saw- ‘the Raven’.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, yeah.
Adam Seger
And so the Raven would fly up into the air and then it swoops down towards you. Right?
Harry Penwell
Yeah. Yeah, often over my head and then I’d chase after it to try and get some Topaz or…
Adam Seger
But by then it’s too far away, right?
Harry Penwell
Yeah, exactly.
Adam Seger
So, so the way that he did that was, was he would, he had a, an object that would fly up. And once it got to a certain height, it would destroy itself after a certain amount of time. And then come, and then it would spawn something that would fly down towards you. So the only problem with that is that it was possible to go and hit the Raven at the exact time that it was disappearing and spawning a new one. So you would kill the old instance of it. And in the next frame, a new one that was flying straight at you would appear.
Harry Penwell
Would spawn, yeah, yeah.
Adam Seger
And so I’ve like always telling Karl, your favourite script is the ‘destroyed by time’, but you know, it’s killing me. Like, not just in the game, but literally trying to go through and find all these things.
Harry Penwell
Oh dear.
Adam Seger
And probably the thing that I did that annoyed Karl the most is he would say,
“Oh, Adam, can we can we, you know, add this feature or do this thing?”
And I’d always say,
“Oh, yeah, that’ll be easy. That’s easy. No problem.”
And then, you know, I get home and either not work on it,
Harry Penwell
It’s not that easy.
Adam Seger
Or look at it. And like,
“Oh, this is like, way more complicated. It’s like introducing a million bugs or whatever it is.”
Karl was like, “Would you please quit telling me that stuff is easy?”
Harry Penwell
Yep, that’s fair enough. Yeah. But hey, it all came together in the end.
Adam Seger
Yeah, no, definitely it did.
Harry Penwell
So there we go.
Adam Seger
No, I mean, those things are relatively minor.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, yeah, obviously, but, um, still fun to hear. And I think it will, it will help any budding game development partnerships realise that, you know, it’s not all plain sailing.
Adam Seger
No, no, no definitely not.
Inspirania – The Inspirations for Dire Vengeance
Harry Penwell
You know, there’s ups and downs in game development. So obviously, Castlevania is an inspiration for the game. And there seems to be some, I noticed the inspiration from like tarot cards and such like with the the beginnings of the levels?
Adam Seger
Yes.
Harry Penwell
Which which was cool. I was just wondering if there were any other major inspirations you mentioned like Nightmare on Elm Street as well. So I’m assuming some films may have inspired you. But I was just wondering about like any is there – did art inspire you? Music? Or even did you run into an actual ghoul one day and have to fight it for some gems?
Adam Seger
There’s, there’s a tonne of inspiration in, in the game. I mean, Castlevania is one of the ones that you obviously you see it and you say, “oh, yeah, cat, Castlevania”. But we were inspired by kind of everything that we love. So, so that includes video games, and you know, you’ve got Castlevania. Gradius, is the inspiration for the powerup system. Ninja Gaiden was kind of the inspiration for the initial way that the player moved and later on Strider.
We’ve got some some Street Fighter in there. You know, there’s a lot in there and some of it maybe isn’t super obvious to everybody but but there’s like a there is a tonne of inspiration in there from lots of different games. But we do also have movies. Like, like we talked about earlier Nightmare on Elm Street. Hellraiser is is another one. The seventh level’s kind of all inspired by, by Hellraiser. And one of the bosses is…
Harry Penwell
Okay, I, I look forward to getting there then.
Adam Seger
What’s that?
Harry Penwell
I look forward to getting to level seven.
Adam Seger
Oh yeah.
Harry Penwell
I must admit I got stuck on level two.
Adam Seger
The game, the game is pretty challenging. We know that it’s pretty challenging. Uh, Contra. But, but also yeah, art, so level five you’ll if you look at the backgrounds in level five, you’ll see that there’s a lot of inspiration from HR Giger. Level six, which is kind of an ice world the backgrounds and all the scenery is very Lovecraftian.
So, we did bring in a lot of inspiration from all kinds of things one of, one of the the fourth boss, you know, I don’t want to give away too much about the fourth boss but are you familiar with the Transformers? I’m sure that you’re familiar with…
Harry Penwell
Yes, yes, I’ve, I’ve seen Transformers.
Adam Seger
But we we both love the old 80s cartoons. And you know, one of the one of our favourite things or one of my favourite things anyways was the robots that are comprised of other robots. So you’ve got little robots and they all combine to, to make a gigantic robot, right, that’s super powerful or whatever. And so we have a boss that’s kind of inspired by that. And it’s not totally obvious that that’s where it came from. But you know, it’s a boss that kind of combines two, two characters to make something that’s, that’s more powerful.
Tips for Prospective Indie Developers
Harry Penwell
Well that’s really cool. Yeah, well, I look forward to dying to that a few times. Well, I’m just conscious of the time. And, because obviously, we only have 15 minutes today. So my last two questions would be, what would you say to any prospective indie gamers, indie developers rather, about starting to make their own game?
Adam Seger
I would say…
Harry Penwell
Do you have any tips or anything?
Adam Seger
What’s? Any tips?
Harry Penwell
Yeah.
Adam Seger
I would say. I would say go for it. And make sure that you’ve got a cheerleader in your life.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, yeah.
Adam Seger
Right. So if that’s, if that’s somebody who’s helping you develop the game, that’s, that’s great. But even if it’s somebody in your life, a loved one who, who really believes in you, and really believes that you, that you can do it, you know, it just it makes the difference when you’re ,when you’re feeling uninspired or feeling down to have somebody say,
“Hey, what” you know, “What’s going on with the game? I want to, I want to see what you’re coming up with next.”
And for making a game, it’s, it’s a lot more work than, than you think it is to, to make one. So having somebody who can help pull you through those things is is really, really crucial.
Ghosts?
Harry Penwell
Yeah, yeah. No, no that makes sense. So final question. A bit of a, just a fun one really. So obviously, the game is gothic inspired and such, like, as we’ve discussed, and so I have to ask,
“Ghosts. Real or not?”
Adam Seger
So my personal view on ghosts, is I want them to be real. But I don’t think that they are.
Harry Penwell
Yeah. That’s, that’s a very measured way of looking at it. I think, yeah.
Adam Seger
That’s my, it’s my, my engineering background.
Harry Penwell
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You’ve had a fascinating career as well I might add.
Adam Seger
Oh, thank you.
The Future and The Finale
Harry Penwell
Yeah, no that was really interesting to see. But yeah, okay. Well, that’s brilliant. That’s the 15 minutes then. Do you have any anything closing to say? Do you do you have another project lined up or something like that?
Adam Seger
We don’t have anything lined up yet. We’re taking a little break.
Harry Penwell
That’s fair.
Adam Seger
From developing to kind of recharge, but we’ve got a lot of ideas. We’re, Karl and I are, um, we call each other on a regular basis with with new ideas. So, I’m kind of interested in doing something, music based.
Harry Penwell
Interesting.
Adam Seger
I know, there have been a lot of music games out there, but but I’ve got some ideas for more of a music based game. And Karl, I think wants to do a fighting game.
Harry Penwell
Right, so more of like Street Fighter stuff again then?
Adam Seger
Yes, yes, exactly. And then of course, Dire Vengeance 2 is always on the table,
Harry Penwell
Excellent, that’s what I wanted to hear.
Adam Seger
But that may be something that would be a little bit further out.
Harry Penwell
Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. Well, brilliant. Well, it’s been great talking to you then. And I hope you recover from your cold.
Adam Seger
Yeah, when you describe me in the, in the interview, can you, you know, say something like, “oh, he sounds like James Earl Jones”.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, yeah, James Earl Jones as he was back in the like, original Lion King.
Adam Seger
Laughing.
Harry Penwell
Brilliant. Well have a great day.
Adam Seger
Indistinct like a muppet.
Harry Penwell
Laughing.
Adam Seger
All right. Well, it’s been great.
Harry Penwell
Yeah, it’s been great speaking to you.
Adam Seger
Yeah, thanks for taking the time.
Harry Penwell
No problem at all. Well, I hope you’ll check out the interview when I’ve written it up. Should be over the next few days (Note – life got in the way, and it was not in the next few days).
Adam Seger
Definitely. Yeah, I can’t wait to see it.
Harry Penwell
Excellent. Right. Well, hopefully I’ll be talking to you about a music or fighting game at some point as well.
Adam Seger
Laughing. I hope so, I hope so.
Harry Penwell
Brilliant, right, see you around.
Adam Seger
Alright, you too. Bye.
Harry Penwell
Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
And that’s all! Did you enjoy the interview? Have you played Dire Vengeance? Would you like us to do more interviews in the future? Let us know in the comments, and thanks for visiting NintendoLink!
